Something tangential.
What do you think about the relationship between particular actors and directors...and because there are WAY more male directors than female directors, this consequently means less chance of this for women?
1. Ford and Wayne
2. Hawks and Grant
3. Capra and Stewart
4. Hitchcock and Grant
5. Hitchcock and Stewart
6. Scorsese and DeNiro
7. Scorsese and Dicaprio (last three films, PLUS next two films)
8. Anderson and Wilson
9. Soderbergh and Clooney
10. Kurosawa and Tofune
11. Herzog and Kinski
12. Scott and Crowe
13. LaBute and Eckhart
There are some director/actress relationships.
1. Griffith and Gish
2. Cukor and Hepburn
3. Hitchock and Bergman
4. Hitchcock and Kelly
5. Lynch and Dern
Any ideas about this phenomenon?
Saturday, January 24, 2009
Wednesday, January 21, 2009
Criteria call
I'm talking to you, T. Azimouth.
I want a positive argument from you. What is the rationale for any number of bad films erasing DeNiro's list? We still haven't talked about all the stink bombs in Brando's column (The Island of Dr. Moreau, anyone?).
My argument against Brando is NOT based on the fact that the bad films erase the power of Streetcar OR On the Waterfront. The argument instead is that he has FEWER great films than DeNiro.
I want a positive argument that demonstrates why a bad film in somebody's category should diminish their legacy. If this is true, should the LACK of bad films be seen as a positive? How many STINKER Cary Grant films can you come up with? Jimmy Stewart?
DeNiro could make 57 sequels to Rocky and Bullwinkle, in my opinion, and still be the greatest male film actor. You can't match him great film for great film, great performance for great performance. Is it a coincidence that almost all of his iconic performances correspond to great films, unlike some of the other actors we discussed?
I want a positive argument from you. What is the rationale for any number of bad films erasing DeNiro's list? We still haven't talked about all the stink bombs in Brando's column (The Island of Dr. Moreau, anyone?).
My argument against Brando is NOT based on the fact that the bad films erase the power of Streetcar OR On the Waterfront. The argument instead is that he has FEWER great films than DeNiro.
I want a positive argument that demonstrates why a bad film in somebody's category should diminish their legacy. If this is true, should the LACK of bad films be seen as a positive? How many STINKER Cary Grant films can you come up with? Jimmy Stewart?
DeNiro could make 57 sequels to Rocky and Bullwinkle, in my opinion, and still be the greatest male film actor. You can't match him great film for great film, great performance for great performance. Is it a coincidence that almost all of his iconic performances correspond to great films, unlike some of the other actors we discussed?
De Niro Takes...De Nero?
Since 2000:
Righteous Kill
What Just Happened
Stardust
The Good Sheperd
Arther and the Invisibles
Hide and Seek
Meet the Fockers
Shark Tale
Godsend (shudder...)
Analyze That
City by the Sea
Showtime
The Score
15 Minutes
Meet the Parents
Men of Honor
The Adventures of Rocky and Bullwinkle
Righteous Kill
What Just Happened
Stardust
The Good Sheperd
Arther and the Invisibles
Hide and Seek
Meet the Fockers
Shark Tale
Godsend (shudder...)
Analyze That
City by the Sea
Showtime
The Score
15 Minutes
Meet the Parents
Men of Honor
The Adventures of Rocky and Bullwinkle
More considerations
I've been buzzing about, skimming through these actor discussions. I have seen far fewer films than you two gentlemen; nevertheless, I shall offer my opinions.
As far as the number of quality films a person acts in, I suppose we have to think about the length of a person's career, which I'm sure you've considered. Someone like Elizabeth Taylor, who was quite captivating in her early career hasn't continued. What do we do with someone who has a career like hers? And are you all thinking specifically about leading roles, or can someone be a supporting actor/character actor? What if the person has the potential to be both and has played integral roles and less-visible parts? I guess I'm asking if a person's versatility should be a factor in determining said actor's greatness.
For me, it seems to be about being able to dissolve one's public persona (say, who we the public think DeNiro or Eastwood or Streep *is*) and becoming this other person. That sense of versatility then becomes the trump card when considering greatness, and I think it's particularly remarkable when an actor's appearance (ie his or her physical beauty or age or unattractiveness or something like this) fades. Someone like Joan Crawford I enjoy a great deal, but her later pictures, she's just Joan Crawford being another version of herself (the public persona we attach to her), the melodramatic bitch-goddess. That's why I can get behind someone like Gene Hackman being considered as a masterful living actor.
That being said, I can think of a couple of living actors who may not be the tippy-top of the poll but certainly deserve a second look:
1. Sissy Spacek
2. Tommy Lee Jones
3. Shirley McClaine
Maybe I'd throw in a Sally Field or a Ralph Finnes, because of their abilities to sort of dissolve into their roles.
Also, Judi Dench has a long TV career too. She's quite good in As Time Goes By. And for the record, I'd like to say Paul Newman and Peter O'Toole are two of my favorites. Kudos to considering Cary Grant. I think he was an equally adept comedic and dramatic actor.
Lastly, and this is more tangential, I have less a problem with using the term "actress" to mean "female actor," simply because it's more descriptive and specific than "actor."
As far as the number of quality films a person acts in, I suppose we have to think about the length of a person's career, which I'm sure you've considered. Someone like Elizabeth Taylor, who was quite captivating in her early career hasn't continued. What do we do with someone who has a career like hers? And are you all thinking specifically about leading roles, or can someone be a supporting actor/character actor? What if the person has the potential to be both and has played integral roles and less-visible parts? I guess I'm asking if a person's versatility should be a factor in determining said actor's greatness.
For me, it seems to be about being able to dissolve one's public persona (say, who we the public think DeNiro or Eastwood or Streep *is*) and becoming this other person. That sense of versatility then becomes the trump card when considering greatness, and I think it's particularly remarkable when an actor's appearance (ie his or her physical beauty or age or unattractiveness or something like this) fades. Someone like Joan Crawford I enjoy a great deal, but her later pictures, she's just Joan Crawford being another version of herself (the public persona we attach to her), the melodramatic bitch-goddess. That's why I can get behind someone like Gene Hackman being considered as a masterful living actor.
That being said, I can think of a couple of living actors who may not be the tippy-top of the poll but certainly deserve a second look:
1. Sissy Spacek
2. Tommy Lee Jones
3. Shirley McClaine
Maybe I'd throw in a Sally Field or a Ralph Finnes, because of their abilities to sort of dissolve into their roles.
Also, Judi Dench has a long TV career too. She's quite good in As Time Goes By. And for the record, I'd like to say Paul Newman and Peter O'Toole are two of my favorites. Kudos to considering Cary Grant. I think he was an equally adept comedic and dramatic actor.
Lastly, and this is more tangential, I have less a problem with using the term "actress" to mean "female actor," simply because it's more descriptive and specific than "actor."
Tuesday, January 20, 2009
Streep-tease
Exceptional Meryl Streep Performances:
The Deer Hunter
Kramer vs. Kramer
Sophie's Choice
Adaptation
Strong Meryl Streep Performances:
Manhattan
The French Lieutenant's Woman
Out of Africa
The Bridges of Madison County
The Hours
Angels in America
The Devil Wears Prada
Totally Crazy Meryl Streep Performances:
Death Becomes Her
A Prairie Home Companion
OSCAR Nominations:
The Devil Wears Prada
Adaptation
Music of the Heart
One True Thing
The Bridges of Madison County
Postcards from the Edge
Evil Angels
Ironweed
Out of Africa
Silkwood
Sophie's Choice (won)
The French Lieutenant's Woman
Kramer vs. Kramer (won)
The Deer Hunter.
That's right: she's been nominated 12 times. 12. With a 13th for Doubt a near-certainty. She also has two Emmys. 6 Golden Globes. An AFI Lifetime Achievement Award. 2 National Board of Review Awards. 4 NSFCA Awards. And 2 SAG Awards.
I think her pedigree stands up, and I think she's a pretty solid pick for best female actor of all time.
The Deer Hunter
Kramer vs. Kramer
Sophie's Choice
Adaptation
Strong Meryl Streep Performances:
Manhattan
The French Lieutenant's Woman
Out of Africa
The Bridges of Madison County
The Hours
Angels in America
The Devil Wears Prada
Totally Crazy Meryl Streep Performances:
Death Becomes Her
A Prairie Home Companion
OSCAR Nominations:
The Devil Wears Prada
Adaptation
Music of the Heart
One True Thing
The Bridges of Madison County
Postcards from the Edge
Evil Angels
Ironweed
Out of Africa
Silkwood
Sophie's Choice (won)
The French Lieutenant's Woman
Kramer vs. Kramer (won)
The Deer Hunter.
That's right: she's been nominated 12 times. 12. With a 13th for Doubt a near-certainty. She also has two Emmys. 6 Golden Globes. An AFI Lifetime Achievement Award. 2 National Board of Review Awards. 4 NSFCA Awards. And 2 SAG Awards.
I think her pedigree stands up, and I think she's a pretty solid pick for best female actor of all time.
Some mini-arguments
I'm still working out my top ten lists. I have done a little bit of work, though.
1. Robert DeNiro
I can tell you right now that this cat should be on top. Perhaps not the most talented among the bunch (you could say that Brando had more raw sexuality and chops), but definitely the best all around candidate with range and an amazing list of films (by far, the best out of the top 300, imho).
Check these out: Raging Bull, Godfather II, Taxi Driver, Goodfellas, Once Upon a Time in America, Mean Streets, Deer Hunter, and King of Comedy and Casino somewhere in the top 500...
If we needed a tiebreaker between him and Brando (more on him in a sec), check out GF II where I think ONLY he could have pulled off a performance as the young Brando-Corleone.
2. Brando
Influence? Hear it. Strength/quality of individual performances? Okay. The breadth just isn't there though. Sandy Koufax of acting. He's hurt by the fact that he only has two leading roles in Top 100 flicks. He's at best a bit player in Apocalypse, something akin to Welles in Third Man (though not as good as Welles's turn as Harry Lime). Incidentally, the lack of great FILMS to support the great PERFORMANCES is one reason why I've rethought Nicholson and Hoffman. Just not there.
3. Cary Grant
WTF? Why isn't he on our top list...maybe top 5? Talk about no respect! Look at this guy's list from the top 300:
North by Northwest, Notorious, Bringing up Baby, His Girl Friday, Philadelphia Story, Only Angels Have Wings, The Awful Truth, Gunga Din...
We have range and quality in spades.
4. Intriguing also rans (those who won't quite make it but who are analogous to Oldman as best supporting nods...)
a. Joseph Cotton
b. Sterling Hayden
c. Gene Hackman
d. William Holden
1. Robert DeNiro
I can tell you right now that this cat should be on top. Perhaps not the most talented among the bunch (you could say that Brando had more raw sexuality and chops), but definitely the best all around candidate with range and an amazing list of films (by far, the best out of the top 300, imho).
Check these out: Raging Bull, Godfather II, Taxi Driver, Goodfellas, Once Upon a Time in America, Mean Streets, Deer Hunter, and King of Comedy and Casino somewhere in the top 500...
If we needed a tiebreaker between him and Brando (more on him in a sec), check out GF II where I think ONLY he could have pulled off a performance as the young Brando-Corleone.
2. Brando
Influence? Hear it. Strength/quality of individual performances? Okay. The breadth just isn't there though. Sandy Koufax of acting. He's hurt by the fact that he only has two leading roles in Top 100 flicks. He's at best a bit player in Apocalypse, something akin to Welles in Third Man (though not as good as Welles's turn as Harry Lime). Incidentally, the lack of great FILMS to support the great PERFORMANCES is one reason why I've rethought Nicholson and Hoffman. Just not there.
3. Cary Grant
WTF? Why isn't he on our top list...maybe top 5? Talk about no respect! Look at this guy's list from the top 300:
North by Northwest, Notorious, Bringing up Baby, His Girl Friday, Philadelphia Story, Only Angels Have Wings, The Awful Truth, Gunga Din...
We have range and quality in spades.
4. Intriguing also rans (those who won't quite make it but who are analogous to Oldman as best supporting nods...)
a. Joseph Cotton
b. Sterling Hayden
c. Gene Hackman
d. William Holden
Criteria
Cross reference each actor with a list of the Top 100 films (your list, The National Film Critics list, AFI, just something); how many Top 100 films is each actor in?
Evaluate range; is DeNiro the same character in each of his top movies? No. Does he have good performances across a range of genres? I would say yes.
Subtract points NOT for bad films but BAD performances in BAD films; thus Oldman can't be blamed if JFK gets crushed under the weight of Kevin Costner. His performance as Oswald is terrific.
Tiebreaker? Boxoffice. Possibly Oscars.
Holla back.
Evaluate range; is DeNiro the same character in each of his top movies? No. Does he have good performances across a range of genres? I would say yes.
Subtract points NOT for bad films but BAD performances in BAD films; thus Oldman can't be blamed if JFK gets crushed under the weight of Kevin Costner. His performance as Oswald is terrific.
Tiebreaker? Boxoffice. Possibly Oscars.
Holla back.
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