Wednesday, January 21, 2009

De Niro Takes...De Nero?

Since 2000:

Righteous Kill
What Just Happened
The Good Sheperd
Arther and the Invisibles
Hide and Seek
Meet the Fockers
Shark Tale
Godsend (shudder...)
Analyze That
City by the Sea
The Score
15 Minutes
Meet the Parents
Men of Honor
The Adventures of Rocky and Bullwinkle


Britt said...

What about Awakenings? Ewwwwww.

Stardust was terrible.

Gaston Monescu said...

DeNiro was by far the best thing about Stardust. AND...he was good in Meet the Parents (at least as good as Streep was in The Devil Wears Prada).

And my point still stands...
Have you seen all these films, T. Azimouth, or are just doing what I did with Ironweed?

T. Azimuth Schwitters said...

Hey, this is the second time you've misread my point about 'Ironweed'--that was a response to your initial dismissal of her performance in it and you're claim that the Academy nomination for the part was b.s. I'm not saying De Niro is bad in these movies, I'm saying these at least appear to be bad movies, and unlike Streep, he's not getting nominated for 'good roles in bad films'...which means we should think about that.

Again: not disparaging De Niro, and he's still my number 2...but given the criteria I set (positively) yesterday, this shit-list is a problem.

Gaston Monescu said...

But we need more clarification. Why is the following list not held against Brando?

Free Money
The Brave
The Island of Dr. Moreau
Don Juan Demarco
Christopher Columbus: The Discovery

And Oscar nods?
Although Britt may be right, Awakenings earned Mr. DeNiro an Best Actor Oscar nod.

So the question is: how specifically are we deciding whether or not bad films affect a career?

Some other interesting facts:
DeNiro's Oscar Nods...
* Won: Best Supporting Actor, The Godfather, Part II (1974)
* Nominated: Best Actor, Taxi Driver (1976)
* Nominated: Best Actor, The Deer Hunter (1978)
* Won: Best Actor, Raging Bull (1980)
* Nominated: Best Actor, Awakenings (1990)
* Nominated: Best Actor, Cape Fear (1991)

Brando has more, but some are suspect:
* 1954: Best Actor, On the Waterfront
* 1972: Best Actor, The Godfather (turned down [25])


* 1951: Best Actor, A Streetcar Named Desire
* 1952: Best Actor, Viva Zapata!
* 1953: Best Actor, Julius Caesar
* 1957: Best Actor, Sayonara
* 1973: Best Actor, Last Tango in Paris
* 1989: Best Supporting Actor, A Dry White Season

T. Azimuth Schwitters said...

I'll post a more serious reply to the questions you're raising later, but in terms of awards, I think the solution is this:

Awards are not the be-all, end-all of acting merit. Here's what they represent:

- peer respect
- respect garnered over a career (this is important)
- individual performance strength
- and, when won, a mark of 'connectability' in the performance (like you value in box office receipts), and, sometimes, true exceptionality.

Lots of nominations need to be a factor in evaluating the standing of an entire career...wins bolster an actor's argument. Not getting nominated much isn't necessarily a detriment, but it is a sign that others in the industry view you as a fluke. As for bad films on the resume? Everybody's got them, but if there are too many (or if they are too concentrated in a decade or so), that's a sign that you have slipped: big-name directors aren't calling you, and you're taking paycheck films. To see why this matters in evaluating an actor, see our new/old friend, Mickey Rourke.

I'll be back later.

P.S.-my 'verification word' right now is 'pholato.' That sounds like something that would have been on your sex/object list at trivia a few weeks ago...

Gaston Monescu said...

An unacknowledged factor here is age. DeNiro was an actor who was able to go back and forth between handsome leading man to aged decrepit man in the same film. That's not happening now. In fact, that's not happening anywhere. Brando was basically stuck with The Freshman as his plumb role in the 90s. The Freshman!

1. The roles people choose are not necessarily up to them.
2. Age (and of course gender...this is probably worse for older women...especially with women not named Streep or Mirren getting overlooked right and left for plumb roles) hampers an actor's choices.
3. Brando didn't make as many films as DeNiro. But DeNiro has TRIED to branch out. Had he played a cop before as he had in Righteous Kill? He does comedies. He does horror flicks. Brando wasn't getting calls either.
4. Given these market-driven factors, I don't see how box office SHOULDN'T be at least some factor in mediating between otherwise equals.

Britt said...

Age certainly should be a factor; I was trying to articulate that at that with mention of the length of an actor's career in my considerations. Once one is over the hill, directors stop ringing you up.

Though, Brando did have the balls to be buck naked whilst pudgy and old for Last Tango. *That* should count for something.